Let’s use this to get every woman (and their allies) to the voting booth. Incredible how blatantly the push is to peel away hard fought for rights. Well guess what GOP?? NO!!!
I love your connection of patriarchy and caste. I don't recall anyone having made that connection so baldly and boldly before. It was a man (lord Acton) in a strongly patriarchal society (though during Queen Victoria's reign) who said that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If anyone believes that patriarchy corrupts men, I'm with you. Does power corrupt women in matriarchal societies the way it corrupts men in patriarchal societies? I don't know, but I suspect it's not as much.
I am curious to figure out the connection or difference between caste and patriarchy. I also can't believe (but not offended) that something I said is considered "baldly," although I looked it up and one definition says "plainly, direct, frank." I like to think that's me. But I also have not historically taken risks with ideas in words. Thanks for your feedback, Chuck. patriarchy corrupts women too. Do you know an example of modern day matriarchy?
Yes, when I said "baldly" that's what I had in mind.
The only modern religion matriarchies I know of are female religious orders. I think many of them have been bad or even terrible/criminal. It may be that women with warped feelings about power (probably a lot of them got those feelings from warped men in their families, or from warped priests, but maybe not). Now that women (and men) can usually drop out of religious orders with relative ease, I suspect the bad apples drive out the good ones.There were some terrible scandals in Ireland a number of years ago, involving orders of nuns doing awful things and getting away with it for decades, because no one in Ireland would accuse nuns doing the things they did. I don't have references off-hand, but if you want some , let me know; I can fine them. A lot of the features of female religions orders are analogous to the Old Boys network in America as it has operated in business, politics, and athletics.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Replacing one caste with other castes seems hardly likely to improve the human condition. What are DEI and CRT but the establishment of alternate castes? The major project of late-stage feminism has been to elevate women by casting men down. How has that worked out? Neither men nor women seem the happier for it, do they?
I have to respond to this: Late-stage (what even is that?) feminism does NOT cast men down. So many men are allies. That's an old stereotype that feminists hate men.
I could cite many examples of that "stereotype" in action, but perhaps that's a better subject for a future article than it is for a brief reply. Suffice to note the parlous condition of boys in our debased culture, the denigration of fatherhood and the family, and the fact, as I noted, that neither women nor men are particularly happy about current social and cultural conditions.
In that connection, let me recommend a recent novel that touches on these points: "Fleishman Is in Trouble," by Taffy Brodesser-Akner, which came out in 2019. In 2022 it was made into an FX miniseries that's also pretty good.
Wilkerson's book is not at all about the establishment of alternative castes. I see your point as buying into the tired old argument that moving toward equality for all necessarily is about bringing others down. That is exactly what those in the caste in power always preach. In my view, it's entirely wrong. I'm a 67 year old white, cis male and I have never felt threatened or degraded by the rise of women, people of color, or others toward equal treatment, nor by giving them advantages to help them advance to that level and make up for past harms.
But of course equality, as defined in the dogmas of progressivism, is all about bringing some people down. You can't give one person an artificial advantage without sticking another person with an artificial disadvantage. Case in point: college admissions, which in so many cases are rigged to give favored groups an advantage by screwing over other groups. Just ask Asian-Americans.
The problem is that the progressive definition of equality is absurdly cosmic.
No, progressives are NOT about bringing some people down. Giving an advantage to someone who is part of a group which has been historically systematically disadvantaged to an enormous degree is not about bringing others down, it's about trying to help that person catch up to a level of equality. I encourage you to read Wilkerson's book if you haven't already. And it all rings true from all the analytical evidence--not anecdote or allegation--I've seen.
Of course they are. For instance, a hierarchal ranking of humanity is the basis of critical race theory.
But to your point, if progressives really were interested in helping disadvantaged groups, they'd do something about its causes, for instance the debased condition of public education, particularly in cities like Chicago and Los Angeles. But instead, progressives champion the cause of the teachers' unions, which are just fine with the status quo. Or instead of deconstructiong urban law and order, they might do something about urban crime—which above all harms poor people living in minority neighborhoods. But try telling that to the Bolshevik mayor of Chicago.
As far as I'm concerned, contemporary progressivism is all about luxury beliefs; that is, beliefs that serve mainly to buttress the self-esteem of well-to-do, mostly white, progressives.
Well, speaking as a progressive, your views are inaccurate for me and the other progressives I know. And I see no further point in continuing this conversation. We fundamentally disagree and it's not worth my time or yours. Have a good day.
I listened to the audiobook version of Caste while making the chocolates you did the drawings for. An incredibly powerful book, made even more so for me by the 12 diverse faces you drew appearing on one after another of the 4,000 chocolates.
I suspect many can and will debate, but I think the turnout for women in November is one of the very key determinants of the ultimate result. I fervently hope they will step up.
Let’s use this to get every woman (and their allies) to the voting booth. Incredible how blatantly the push is to peel away hard fought for rights. Well guess what GOP?? NO!!!
YES!
I love your connection of patriarchy and caste. I don't recall anyone having made that connection so baldly and boldly before. It was a man (lord Acton) in a strongly patriarchal society (though during Queen Victoria's reign) who said that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If anyone believes that patriarchy corrupts men, I'm with you. Does power corrupt women in matriarchal societies the way it corrupts men in patriarchal societies? I don't know, but I suspect it's not as much.
I am curious to figure out the connection or difference between caste and patriarchy. I also can't believe (but not offended) that something I said is considered "baldly," although I looked it up and one definition says "plainly, direct, frank." I like to think that's me. But I also have not historically taken risks with ideas in words. Thanks for your feedback, Chuck. patriarchy corrupts women too. Do you know an example of modern day matriarchy?
Yes, when I said "baldly" that's what I had in mind.
The only modern religion matriarchies I know of are female religious orders. I think many of them have been bad or even terrible/criminal. It may be that women with warped feelings about power (probably a lot of them got those feelings from warped men in their families, or from warped priests, but maybe not). Now that women (and men) can usually drop out of religious orders with relative ease, I suspect the bad apples drive out the good ones.There were some terrible scandals in Ireland a number of years ago, involving orders of nuns doing awful things and getting away with it for decades, because no one in Ireland would accuse nuns doing the things they did. I don't have references off-hand, but if you want some , let me know; I can fine them. A lot of the features of female religions orders are analogous to the Old Boys network in America as it has operated in business, politics, and athletics.
Thus spake Nincompoopus.
Thanks for the drop on the movie... and good luck with yours!
THanks, D.L.!
Thanks for this. The parallels between patriarchy and caste have given me something to think about.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Thank you, bob. Together is the only way. It's so complicated, though. This division is very worrisome in our country.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Wonderful reflections Liza that imagine the new world we need and deserve. Ava D and Elizabeth W are stunningly good; we might read and see all their works. Slavery, white supremacy and unbridled capitalism shape and promote our current divisions.
We have many bridges to build. And many are joining together: whites, people of color; youth, teens and young adults; those with developmental differences; gay, queer, trans, and many more are building a future that will honor the Earth. We need to find way to connect--not only with allies--but also with those stuck in fear and hate. Together is the only way. This site, your voice and art, bring light to darkness through laughter and wisdom.
Replacing one caste with other castes seems hardly likely to improve the human condition. What are DEI and CRT but the establishment of alternate castes? The major project of late-stage feminism has been to elevate women by casting men down. How has that worked out? Neither men nor women seem the happier for it, do they?
I have to respond to this: Late-stage (what even is that?) feminism does NOT cast men down. So many men are allies. That's an old stereotype that feminists hate men.
I could cite many examples of that "stereotype" in action, but perhaps that's a better subject for a future article than it is for a brief reply. Suffice to note the parlous condition of boys in our debased culture, the denigration of fatherhood and the family, and the fact, as I noted, that neither women nor men are particularly happy about current social and cultural conditions.
In that connection, let me recommend a recent novel that touches on these points: "Fleishman Is in Trouble," by Taffy Brodesser-Akner, which came out in 2019. In 2022 it was made into an FX miniseries that's also pretty good.
Wilkerson's book is not at all about the establishment of alternative castes. I see your point as buying into the tired old argument that moving toward equality for all necessarily is about bringing others down. That is exactly what those in the caste in power always preach. In my view, it's entirely wrong. I'm a 67 year old white, cis male and I have never felt threatened or degraded by the rise of women, people of color, or others toward equal treatment, nor by giving them advantages to help them advance to that level and make up for past harms.
But of course equality, as defined in the dogmas of progressivism, is all about bringing some people down. You can't give one person an artificial advantage without sticking another person with an artificial disadvantage. Case in point: college admissions, which in so many cases are rigged to give favored groups an advantage by screwing over other groups. Just ask Asian-Americans.
The problem is that the progressive definition of equality is absurdly cosmic.
No, progressives are NOT about bringing some people down. Giving an advantage to someone who is part of a group which has been historically systematically disadvantaged to an enormous degree is not about bringing others down, it's about trying to help that person catch up to a level of equality. I encourage you to read Wilkerson's book if you haven't already. And it all rings true from all the analytical evidence--not anecdote or allegation--I've seen.
Of course they are. For instance, a hierarchal ranking of humanity is the basis of critical race theory.
But to your point, if progressives really were interested in helping disadvantaged groups, they'd do something about its causes, for instance the debased condition of public education, particularly in cities like Chicago and Los Angeles. But instead, progressives champion the cause of the teachers' unions, which are just fine with the status quo. Or instead of deconstructiong urban law and order, they might do something about urban crime—which above all harms poor people living in minority neighborhoods. But try telling that to the Bolshevik mayor of Chicago.
As far as I'm concerned, contemporary progressivism is all about luxury beliefs; that is, beliefs that serve mainly to buttress the self-esteem of well-to-do, mostly white, progressives.
Well, speaking as a progressive, your views are inaccurate for me and the other progressives I know. And I see no further point in continuing this conversation. We fundamentally disagree and it's not worth my time or yours. Have a good day.
Oh. Well, that leaves me wondering why all these thing are happening at all—if you and other progressives your know don't hold such views, I mean.
I listened to the audiobook version of Caste while making the chocolates you did the drawings for. An incredibly powerful book, made even more so for me by the 12 diverse faces you drew appearing on one after another of the 4,000 chocolates.
Isn't it a terrific book? And wow, 4,000 faces must have made you get into a zone of thinking (I know it did).
I suspect many can and will debate, but I think the turnout for women in November is one of the very key determinants of the ultimate result. I fervently hope they will step up.
(And this from a former indoctrinated patriarch.)
I hope you are right!