Yes and as usual the big push is from Democrats. Panic looks bad on us. Joe is old and a debate format that is rigged in Trumps favor going on for 90 minutes well past an 81 year olds bedtime was unfair. And he had a cold. All those young people saying he is too old. FDR has handlers who made sure his handicap was not front and center. Someone needs to help Joe. We need his courage and commitment, as well as his vast experience. We need to get out of the hole Republicans have dug for us or we will become and Oligarchy just like Russia.
As I understood it, the Biden team requested the debate and, to a large extent, proposed the format, without much pushback from the Trump team, so I hesitate to call it "rigged".
The Democrat's panic has been building up from "prefer a younger candidate" to "concern" to "fear". This bad debate was yet another in a series of poor showings, and it turned into icing on the cake because it was in a national debate.
I think the more balanced view is that Biden flubbed this one big time. If he keeps flubbing, then he may make himself completely unelectable. By using the term "unelectable", I do not mean that he is unqualified, i mean that swing voters will fill in a different circle in the election booth because their opinion has been shaped only by a few soundbites on TV.
I don't think we have any alternative now but to support the Biden-Harris team, while continuing to call Trump out for what he is.
It seems that the main stream media have decided that Joe must go. Screw that. I voted for Joe in the primaries and plan to support, and vote for him, in the election this fall.
I’m tuning out of all media until they start doing their jobs. I’ve signed up for alerts for President Biden’s virtual “Conversations” announced by the WH Office of Public Engagement Newsletter just now. I’ll get policy updates straight from the horse’s mouth. I’m celebrating tomorrow—FULL-TILT BOOGIE— while we still have our freedoms. I’m an old lady. I don’t allow anyone to steal my joy anymore.
Liza. First, I laughed out loud at the 2008 cartoon. I remember being giddy - and not only because our first grandchild was born a couple of days later.
Interesting the arc of our political memories. I burst out crying when I overheard my mother say she voted for Adlai Stevenson. Later my first vote was for McGovern (I have that button btw). I got to meet Fritz Mondale when his close friend and former classmate introduced us. I met Eugene McCarthy (yawn) at a cocktail party.
But mostly I remember my grandmother, in the last weeks of her life calling my father (her son in law) over to her bedside, telling him she needed to tell him something.
She said “Never vote for Republicans, they don’t like working people.”
I love those memories you shared. I failed to mention that as a kid, I didn't quite understand why we liked Humphrey because his appearance was odd and his voice too. But I of course realized that was not that iimportant. The man who beat him was even wierder in so many ways! I also recall being unsure about McGovern because my elders were not sure about him. It was an odd time, too. Your grandmother was wise, for sure.
Liza - I was not encouraged by Humphrey either. It was his physicality I admit. He didn’t seem robust enough to win, not larger than life size after Johnson (who I’ve come to admire in retrospect despite Vietnam because his domestic achievements mean so much. (The very ones the new GOP seek to unwind.)
Young voters are 90% emotion, 10% policy I’m guessing. It grows toward balance, then flips to 90% policy 10% emotion at my age.. just a theory ..
As usual, you capture the essence of the day. I feel like I am told that something momentous is going to happen and then when it does we start waiting for the next big event. It wears me down. In fact, I am so worn down that I have severe bronchitis. Even if a Democrat wins the presidency, the SCOTUS ruling threatens the future of democracy. Sorry for the negativity. Maybe I have to get aboard a train to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Love all these cartoons and musings, Liza! You mirror so many of us. I canceled by subscriptions to the Times and the Post, which gave me solace and clear information when I needed both most: 2017-21, 45’s term of office. Now I rely on the experts writing on Substack + my gut, which is always spot on. Forward, everyone! We can do this!
Just started following Heather Cox Richardson after your suggestion Liza, wow what a terrific resource. Just got her book from the library, “Democracy Awakening” and I’m only a few pages in but the correlation with Hitler’s rise in Germany, which was one of the strongest democracies at the time, is way too close to Trumps tactics. I too have dropped the New York Times and rely on PBS, NPR and the Associated Press for news.
(1) Biden's debate doesn't matter much (wasn't widely viewed to begin with), and there's plenty of counter-material by Trump
(2) debate performance has no bearing on his ability to be effective as chief executive
(3) switching horses now is all but impossible (Biden's campaign funds can't be transferred to another campaign).
Point (1)-will it matter?
Counter to point (1), I do think the debate matters, because the key moments will be retelevised until the entire nation has been saturated with them. On the other hand, there is plenty of material showing Trump spewing word salads and defending why he wanted to overthrow our government and why he prefers porn stars to spank him with magazines instead of classified dossiers (I'm guessing it has to do with the staples in the dossiers). So, it is possible that this debate doesn't, by itself, make Biden look any worse than Trump in the eyes of swing voters. However, it may cause them to vote for a 3rd party candidate.
Point (2)-is debate performance relevant?
While I agree with point (2), i.e., that debate performance does not equate to executive performance, I doubt that swing voters understand that.
Point (3)-do we have any alternatives?
Point (3), that we don't have alternatives, does resonate with me. The only alternative to Biden is Kamala Harris, assuming she can pick a running mate that is compelling to people on the right and the left (Adam Kinzinger?), but I do not believe that Harris would initiate the shake-up on her own. And I don't think Biden will step back on his own.
I'm slowly concluding that this particular debate might affect electablity, but we don't have any other choice. So we should support Biden with enthusiasm and tell our friends on the other side of the divide that Biden has the integrity and skills that do matter, that oration skills in debating don't matter, and that Trump is an unacceptable candidate based on the things that do matter.
No Kinzinger! He did a good thing, but his voting record was awful. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend!
Gretchen Witmer helps bring in a swing state. I think we need to get past the fear of two women on the ticket. I’d love to see a Harris-Klobuchar ticket for instance.
Agreed, Kinzinger is conservative because he is a Republican. I think a new ticket would need to throw a bone to right or at least to the middle, AND it should be a really interesting combination that attracts a lot of buzz to suck the oxygen out of the air from Trump. I really don't know who that would be. I use Kinzinger as an example because he's a Republican, and a cross-party ticket would draw a lot of attention.
When you are looking for another candidate choice you are falling for the Trump campaign’s continuing efforts to undermine Joe Biden. Magically thinking that someone can jump in and immediately assume Biden’s successful presidency gives them exactly what they thrive on, Chaos. Joe is not the problem.
I'm drawing a distinction between electability and capability. If flubbing public appearances makes Biden not electable because the swing voters end up noticing and remembering the flubs, then the capabilities don't matter.
I believe Biden will be described by historians as one of the most effective presidents we've ever had. But the debate was like a cloak of invisibility that made his track record invisible to any of the viewing public who weren't already aware of his capabilities and impact. Part of what makes Biden an effective executive in the first place is that he works quietly behind the scenes, he does not advertise his strategies, and he works on issues that will have meaningful impact over many years (beyond the attention span of most voters). All of this is too subtle for many Americans, so the gladiator fight of a debate becomes important to getting elected, even though it doesn't have much relevance to the job of president.
I think the best we can do for now is support Biden and try to figure out how to engage swing voters one by one to show them first that Trump isn't fit for office categorically (i.e., his ethics and lack of commitment to democracy don't meet minimum standards), and, failing the categorical arguments, showing that Biden is more capable in any case.
I'm just thinking out loud, I'm not recommending any specific solution because I don't have one.
Well put. And I agree with you on Biden. QUiet determination. No flash, just getting it done. Part of that is his age, he has so much experience, not only does he know how to get it done, he knows it is important TO get it done and now. A president's term is so short, no time to dilly dally.
I think tomorrow may be a perfect day to do a political post! After all, we have one branch of government doing everything it can to dismantle the beautiful system that was created 248 years ago.
Will we make it to 250 years, or will American Democracy die, and turn into a dictatorship?
I am sick of all the negative comments on CNN and NYT. So much click bait. Little actual explanation of what we saw on that debate stage and no empathy and understanding. No attacking Trump on his lies other that articles with fact checking. No opinion pieces on how awful Trump behaved on that debate stage. You and Heather Cox Richardson help me see the light. Thank you for what you both do.
What a cute campaign button! All its letters are caps except the i, which has its dot. Someone must have worried that it would be read as HUBLE BABY, with much comic confusion.
This whole coverage against Biden reminds me so much of “but her emails”! I’m beginning to wonder if Democrats need to organize to push back.
Exactly. I trust the hairs on the back of my neck on this.
Yes and as usual the big push is from Democrats. Panic looks bad on us. Joe is old and a debate format that is rigged in Trumps favor going on for 90 minutes well past an 81 year olds bedtime was unfair. And he had a cold. All those young people saying he is too old. FDR has handlers who made sure his handicap was not front and center. Someone needs to help Joe. We need his courage and commitment, as well as his vast experience. We need to get out of the hole Republicans have dug for us or we will become and Oligarchy just like Russia.
As I understood it, the Biden team requested the debate and, to a large extent, proposed the format, without much pushback from the Trump team, so I hesitate to call it "rigged".
The Democrat's panic has been building up from "prefer a younger candidate" to "concern" to "fear". This bad debate was yet another in a series of poor showings, and it turned into icing on the cake because it was in a national debate.
I think the more balanced view is that Biden flubbed this one big time. If he keeps flubbing, then he may make himself completely unelectable. By using the term "unelectable", I do not mean that he is unqualified, i mean that swing voters will fill in a different circle in the election booth because their opinion has been shaped only by a few soundbites on TV.
I don't think we have any alternative now but to support the Biden-Harris team, while continuing to call Trump out for what he is.
Yes!
It seems that the main stream media have decided that Joe must go. Screw that. I voted for Joe in the primaries and plan to support, and vote for him, in the election this fall.
I’m tuning out of all media until they start doing their jobs. I’ve signed up for alerts for President Biden’s virtual “Conversations” announced by the WH Office of Public Engagement Newsletter just now. I’ll get policy updates straight from the horse’s mouth. I’m celebrating tomorrow—FULL-TILT BOOGIE— while we still have our freedoms. I’m an old lady. I don’t allow anyone to steal my joy anymore.
Rest in the knowledge you’re helping us get through this mess with your talents, Liza. Have a cold drink 🍹 💙
Liza. First, I laughed out loud at the 2008 cartoon. I remember being giddy - and not only because our first grandchild was born a couple of days later.
Interesting the arc of our political memories. I burst out crying when I overheard my mother say she voted for Adlai Stevenson. Later my first vote was for McGovern (I have that button btw). I got to meet Fritz Mondale when his close friend and former classmate introduced us. I met Eugene McCarthy (yawn) at a cocktail party.
But mostly I remember my grandmother, in the last weeks of her life calling my father (her son in law) over to her bedside, telling him she needed to tell him something.
She said “Never vote for Republicans, they don’t like working people.”
She was not wrong.
I love those memories you shared. I failed to mention that as a kid, I didn't quite understand why we liked Humphrey because his appearance was odd and his voice too. But I of course realized that was not that iimportant. The man who beat him was even wierder in so many ways! I also recall being unsure about McGovern because my elders were not sure about him. It was an odd time, too. Your grandmother was wise, for sure.
Liza - I was not encouraged by Humphrey either. It was his physicality I admit. He didn’t seem robust enough to win, not larger than life size after Johnson (who I’ve come to admire in retrospect despite Vietnam because his domestic achievements mean so much. (The very ones the new GOP seek to unwind.)
Young voters are 90% emotion, 10% policy I’m guessing. It grows toward balance, then flips to 90% policy 10% emotion at my age.. just a theory ..
A good theory.
As usual, you capture the essence of the day. I feel like I am told that something momentous is going to happen and then when it does we start waiting for the next big event. It wears me down. In fact, I am so worn down that I have severe bronchitis. Even if a Democrat wins the presidency, the SCOTUS ruling threatens the future of democracy. Sorry for the negativity. Maybe I have to get aboard a train to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
No, don't worry about it. Get better!!
Love all these cartoons and musings, Liza! You mirror so many of us. I canceled by subscriptions to the Times and the Post, which gave me solace and clear information when I needed both most: 2017-21, 45’s term of office. Now I rely on the experts writing on Substack + my gut, which is always spot on. Forward, everyone! We can do this!
Also cancelled my NYT...
But I need the puzzles to clear my head!
Good news! You can subscribe to just the games! $25/year. They’re running a special!
THank you, Joyce! Mainstream media is a mess. There, I said it.
Just started following Heather Cox Richardson after your suggestion Liza, wow what a terrific resource. Just got her book from the library, “Democracy Awakening” and I’m only a few pages in but the correlation with Hitler’s rise in Germany, which was one of the strongest democracies at the time, is way too close to Trumps tactics. I too have dropped the New York Times and rely on PBS, NPR and the Associated Press for news.
She is amazing! I should pivot to PBS and NPR, I used to rely on them a lot. Need to go back!!!
I found it instructive to watch these clips by Lawrence O'Donnell:
https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-we-live-in-a-country-where-most-commentators-declared-the-liar-the-debate-winner-213936197668
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9vsivYrC4U&t=660s
O'Donnell's main points are that
(1) Biden's debate doesn't matter much (wasn't widely viewed to begin with), and there's plenty of counter-material by Trump
(2) debate performance has no bearing on his ability to be effective as chief executive
(3) switching horses now is all but impossible (Biden's campaign funds can't be transferred to another campaign).
Point (1)-will it matter?
Counter to point (1), I do think the debate matters, because the key moments will be retelevised until the entire nation has been saturated with them. On the other hand, there is plenty of material showing Trump spewing word salads and defending why he wanted to overthrow our government and why he prefers porn stars to spank him with magazines instead of classified dossiers (I'm guessing it has to do with the staples in the dossiers). So, it is possible that this debate doesn't, by itself, make Biden look any worse than Trump in the eyes of swing voters. However, it may cause them to vote for a 3rd party candidate.
Point (2)-is debate performance relevant?
While I agree with point (2), i.e., that debate performance does not equate to executive performance, I doubt that swing voters understand that.
Point (3)-do we have any alternatives?
Point (3), that we don't have alternatives, does resonate with me. The only alternative to Biden is Kamala Harris, assuming she can pick a running mate that is compelling to people on the right and the left (Adam Kinzinger?), but I do not believe that Harris would initiate the shake-up on her own. And I don't think Biden will step back on his own.
I'm slowly concluding that this particular debate might affect electablity, but we don't have any other choice. So we should support Biden with enthusiasm and tell our friends on the other side of the divide that Biden has the integrity and skills that do matter, that oration skills in debating don't matter, and that Trump is an unacceptable candidate based on the things that do matter.
No Kinzinger! He did a good thing, but his voting record was awful. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend!
Gretchen Witmer helps bring in a swing state. I think we need to get past the fear of two women on the ticket. I’d love to see a Harris-Klobuchar ticket for instance.
Agreed, Kinzinger is conservative because he is a Republican. I think a new ticket would need to throw a bone to right or at least to the middle, AND it should be a really interesting combination that attracts a lot of buzz to suck the oxygen out of the air from Trump. I really don't know who that would be. I use Kinzinger as an example because he's a Republican, and a cross-party ticket would draw a lot of attention.
When you are looking for another candidate choice you are falling for the Trump campaign’s continuing efforts to undermine Joe Biden. Magically thinking that someone can jump in and immediately assume Biden’s successful presidency gives them exactly what they thrive on, Chaos. Joe is not the problem.
I'm drawing a distinction between electability and capability. If flubbing public appearances makes Biden not electable because the swing voters end up noticing and remembering the flubs, then the capabilities don't matter.
I believe Biden will be described by historians as one of the most effective presidents we've ever had. But the debate was like a cloak of invisibility that made his track record invisible to any of the viewing public who weren't already aware of his capabilities and impact. Part of what makes Biden an effective executive in the first place is that he works quietly behind the scenes, he does not advertise his strategies, and he works on issues that will have meaningful impact over many years (beyond the attention span of most voters). All of this is too subtle for many Americans, so the gladiator fight of a debate becomes important to getting elected, even though it doesn't have much relevance to the job of president.
I think the best we can do for now is support Biden and try to figure out how to engage swing voters one by one to show them first that Trump isn't fit for office categorically (i.e., his ethics and lack of commitment to democracy don't meet minimum standards), and, failing the categorical arguments, showing that Biden is more capable in any case.
I'm just thinking out loud, I'm not recommending any specific solution because I don't have one.
Well put. And I agree with you on Biden. QUiet determination. No flash, just getting it done. Part of that is his age, he has so much experience, not only does he know how to get it done, he knows it is important TO get it done and now. A president's term is so short, no time to dilly dally.
Your posts are important. I look forward to every post. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you Liza!
I think tomorrow may be a perfect day to do a political post! After all, we have one branch of government doing everything it can to dismantle the beautiful system that was created 248 years ago.
Will we make it to 250 years, or will American Democracy die, and turn into a dictatorship?
I am sick of all the negative comments on CNN and NYT. So much click bait. Little actual explanation of what we saw on that debate stage and no empathy and understanding. No attacking Trump on his lies other that articles with fact checking. No opinion pieces on how awful Trump behaved on that debate stage. You and Heather Cox Richardson help me see the light. Thank you for what you both do.
What a cute campaign button! All its letters are caps except the i, which has its dot. Someone must have worried that it would be read as HUBLE BABY, with much comic confusion.
Hang in there. That's what I'm trying to do.
But many people do see through pandering. Like Palin. And whoever the VP is, they need to be appropriate to be president